I don't know if this thread will help(it was done to a zx14) but it does discuss some of the benefits to removing them and how to do it. In my opinion, if you have an exhaust, filters and powercommander and you still don't have enough power it may be time to step up to a liter bike rather then mess with stuff like this. Just a thought. Here's the thread:
http://www.zxforums.com/forums/zx-14-forum/7500-flies-out-picture-guide.html
Good luck.

 

I do have shortened YOSHI rs5 carbon slip on, gutted cat, BMC race filter, and a PC3. I doing a lot of little things over the winter and am kinda bored and someone mentioned it to me and it seemed like an easy project if it is beneficial. I completed the ram air mod, did the kleen air mod but instead of blocking off the ports i looped them back into my crankcase breather, my buddy did this on his and gained about 7 horse on the dyno.

 

well once again take it how you take it, cause you have 07 as where i have an 06 so mine is a 636, but i removed mine and it sharpened up my throttle response greatly. My bike is also far from stock as a relitively stock bike may not respond the same. I now just finished my rebuild and have only ran it one time really for about 20 miles since, but it was night and day difference. If you are really looking to what would make the biggest difference for this would be replace your stock tall v-stacks with short ones so they all short. I had that done until i went with factory pro v-stacks. Also, i noticed you didnt say anything about jumper mod, if you havent do it helps a bit. I would love to have a 07-08 for a track bike, but i cant afford another bike at the moment.

 

Jumper Mod is done. Did that the day I got the bike home. Whats the benefit of putting on the shorter stacks? Throttle blades are defiantly going to come out though. I just wanted to make sure there will be no negative effects.

 

Sweet! another mod that won't cost me any more f*king money!

 

That's exactly the way I am thinking!!!!!

 

You did not answer which mods made this hp.... I do not think the jumper mod has as much as an effect on hp as the 07-08 zx6r did.

The Block off for emmissions does nothing for power.

The best way to perform the block off mod would be to buy plates and shut the pair valve off, or to connect each side together as one and plug the airbox. I have no idea why you would connect the pair valve into your crankcase. That is partially burnt fuel going into your crankcase.

 

I have been hearing a lot about "removing secondary butterflies" and to me it sounds much like the type of mod you would get from an XTRE.

I am not totally sold on this mod being that this bike was designed with it for a reason and being that it is the fastest production 600cc bike of its year it must mean something.

I have a 2009 ZX6r and this mod is something that a guy from another forum is looking into. He should be done with it at the beginning of the New year. He is going to do a write up of the before and after dyno runs and we will see from that how well this mod works. I am curious to find out before ripping it out and wedling the holes up.

 

I don't think anyone is welding any holes up. I took mine out last night and I could put them back on in less that 30 minutes. I didn't get a chance to ride it yet, but start up / warm up was fine and the throttle response is great (seems improved slightly...seems)

Of course, the 09 may be different than my 07 or the OP's 07, but I can't see why you would need to weld anything. Let us know when you get those dyno numbers. I'm interested to see if there's any difference in torque

 

When you remove the Butterflies you shoudl remove the bar and plates not just the plates. When you remove the bar there will be holes that need to be blocked off or air will get through them. Best way to seal them is to JB Weld them but then good luck putting them back on.
*This is for an 09-10 ZX6R not sure how different if at all it is for other years*

To me it sounds like a lot of the gains from taking this out is the same you get from the XTRE. I have not exeprienced both just basing this on what peoples feedbacks are of the two and they are very similar.

 

I didnt remove mine on my 05 636, but the kit ecu leaves them open, only downside i have found with it is that there is a bit of a hesitation that clears out around 4,000-5,000rpm if i recall correctly, and this was not able to be tuned out when being mapped.
removing them will not gain you but maybe 1rwhp on the dyno but i am sure you will lose some power under 5,000 but how often are these bikes even there?

TYLER, what did you end up doing with your bike again?

 

well i know on my bike (06 636) after removal of them the throttle response was sharpened up a lot but that is taking it mine has a lot more than just normals bolt ons

 

Those of you who keep referencing this to an XTRE, this and the butterfly mod have nothing to do with each other and you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. You will actually make gains in addition to the XTRE.

By removing the secondary throttle butterfly, you are increasing volumetric efficiency/ airflow into the engine. The additional throttle plates are there to help with cold starts/warm up enrichment and also as a means of to reduce noise emissions.

 

No need to get snippy, most people are willing to be wrong and learn something. Maybe you could go ahead and expand on your explanation and tell everyone exactly what the Xtre does, what the jumper mod does and tell us how it is that you came to that conclusion about what the secondary butterfly valves are for and how removing them "increases volumetric efficiency".
Are you an ME? Work for KHI R&D dept.? Are you 100% sure that's all they're for?
Is it something you read on another forum or was told by a friend?
We're all here to learn something. So, by all means, please continue.

 

watch out hes been here longer than you he is smarter, dont piss him off

 

Yes, but look at my giant post count, I'm obviously a genius.

 

From what you just posted, you're obviously on the rag. Take two Midol and drink some cranberry juice, you'll feel tons better.:lol

 

Good answer :mfclap :tard

I have an 07 ZX-6R, i was wondering if anyone has removed the secondary throttle blades from their bike and if their is any benefit to doing so. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Guys

I removed the secondary throttle plates on my 08 ZX6R, just to see what all the fuss was about.
The louder intake noise and abrubt throttle response is a placebo.
There were lags and minute gasps throughout the RPM range, which gives the sequential surges the illusion of being "extra power".
I wasn't impressed by the "meaner" sounding intake noise, I paid close attention to what the bike actually did. The throttle completely lost it's linear, smooth response. And that is why the secondaries where designed in. The intake on these bikes isn't about volume, but velocity. Just like the exhaust. Saying that removing the secondaries on this particular bike will increase power by method of increasing sheer volume of air is like saying the same for replacing the entire exhaust with 3" dia. pipe. Bigger/more isn't always better and ripping shit out of the intake just because it's "free", doesn't mean it's an improvement.
The primaries open in direct response to twisting the throttle. The secondaries are controlled via a TPS and manage the amount of air and it's velocity as it enters the TB.
They make for a smoother, more controlled throttle response at lower RPM and partial throttle.
Removing them will not only disrupt throttle response, but possibly create a lean condition.
If you have a timing retard eliminator (X-tre), you have advanced timing in all gears, as if you are in 6th gear at all times. This will create an even leaner AND hotter scenario. Not good for a high rev, high compression engine.
The butterfly valve in the exhaust was designed to close slightly at above 12k RPM, to cut down on noise emissions. And it does "choke" the motor enough to suffer a small HP loss at those RPM.
The intake butterly valves are NOT there to hinder power OR noise levels. They're there to help.
This is not a litre bike or 1400 set up for the drag strip. It's a little 600. It's not a monster that can't get enough air and the engineers had to put all sorts of contraptions on it to tame it for the street. The only restrictions designed into the 600 are targetting the upper end of the RPM range, where it actually has some power.
The intake was designed to help the engine in every way possible, to make it streetable, responsive and smooth.
You can retune it with a PC and dump more fuel to compensate for the extra air thats smashing into the TB, but there's nothing there to manage the velocity at which it enters. You just get turbulance and crappy, abrubt throttle response.
I think there's more to be gained from a full, race tuned exhaust sytem, PC and dyno tune by a reputable tuner than just ripping shit out of your intake system. Or, hacking up your stock exhaust and cat, for that matter. The engineers put quite a bit into the intake system on all these bikes.
I think there's more to be gained on a 600cc streetbike by calibrating and adjusting the throttle plates than simply ripping them out. I'm going to see if this is a possibility on my bike sometime before spring and I will post my findings. I know some Suzuki 1000 V-Strom owners stumbled upon this and they all put their secondaries back in, claiming the bikes had more and smoother response than when they were new and DEFINITELY more than with them out.
This is all my opinion, based on my experience with my own bike(witch is mechanically identical to your's) and my interpretation of countless write-ups and reviews that I've researched in the last 2 yrs.

 

that was awesome rr, i have never heard you talk so smart, damn you must have a headache now :clap :clap :clap :mfclap :rotflmao

 

Must've been one of those Zen moments.
Shit doesn't always come out like that when I post. :smile

 

rrzxter is absolutely right. the secondary throttle plates are there to keep the air velocity up at lower rpm. At high rpm they open allowing the engine to breathe through both throttles because the shear volume of air the engine uses at high rpm will keep the velocity up.

But there is more to it than velocity, the length and shape of the runners is also important. when air is moving towards the valve it has some pretty serious speed, as the valve closes it causes a high pressure pulse to go back towards the intake. this pulse then hits the high pressure air in the manifold and bounces back toward the valve. for best performance you want the valve to be opening right as the pressure wave gets back to the valve. the time it takes to bounce back and forth is determined by the length and shape of the runner. when the engine is spinning slower the air needs more time to align with the valve opening. As rpm increases the time between valve opening events becomes lower, but pressure waves move at a static speed (the speed of sound). Because of this at high rpm the runner needs to be shorter so the pressure wave has less distance to travel so it reaches the opening valve in time.

Basically the valves are there to give superior low-end torque then open to allow for high rpm volume. there may be a small gain in high rpm power from removing the secondary throttles because of greater volume, but the trade off is LESS low rpm power, non-smooth(?) throttle response, and worse fuel economy. this would be acceptable on a race bike but unless your never below 10000rpm you will degrade the overall performance of your small cc engine. larger engines don't suffer from the removal of the blades as much simply because they consume more air at any given rpm so the velocity stays up any way. but even larger engines still will benefit from a multi stage intake because of the runner length changes.

If you need more info on this just research intake runner tuning.

 

You could get the same power if the primary throttle plates were where the secondary's are, the runners were longer, and the air box was smaller compared to how our intake system is currently designed. The way it is designed now naturally favors the upper power band now even with the secondary throttle.
However, if you do not intend to keep the bike in the upper RPMs for an extended period of time, then there would in fact no substantial benefit to this mod. But on the same note, neither would any intake mod unless the end goal was to chase a higher peak value.

 

I guess I was speaking more to the folks that simply remove the secondaries from their stock, daily drivers and then rant and rave about the crazy, noticeable gains. Naturally, if you run a race bike and/or street bike that's been tuned to the hilt for whatever mods are done and you run the thing wide open all the time, you will see gains.
But, for your average Joe Schmoe with a basically stock bike, I wouldn't recommend this mod. I didn't really feel like I needed a dyno machine to tell me that I may have gained a horse or 2 at over 12k rpm, or that my throttle response sucked from 2k - 10k. It certainly didn't give me power gains across the board on my stock bike. Even if I had a PC and had it tuned, I would still leave them in because it's a street bike and spends way too much time in city traffic. If the OP was building a track bike and asked the same question, I never would have posted.
Anyway, I took some Midol and a long nap. :smile

 

Anyway, I took some Midol and a long nap. :smile

:rotflmao

 

It all depends on tuning the bike for it. Yes mine are out and was tuned once more by a drag racing shop and the fucker flies. Ha Ha! I'm running -1 +3 gears and it will turn to the rev limiter in all 6 gears. Top speed of 169.1 mph. Now I do have some fuel secrets and you definitely do NOT want to be running 93 octane. I have 4 metal gas tanks from Lowes and I put 4 gallons of 87 ethanol free fuel and 1 gallon of 93 for an average of 88.2 octane.

Why people don't understand there is more power with the lower octane are full of shit and need to go back to their physics class in college. Fuel is everything with these bikes. The drag shop that has been tuning my bike sells racing fuel and it's only 87 octane.

You need to add some fuel at 0% throttle position. Start at 750rpm with a 8 then 3- 6's, 4 and 2 up to 2000rpm because of the extra air on start up.

 

Removed Secondary Throttle Plates

I Removed Secondary Throttle Plates today.

WOW, but it is a qualified wow. I already have a Skutr Net servo buddy http://www.servobuddy.com/ and they sent me a notice that the throttle buddy has been tested and up for sale. OK so I took a look and did some research.

And I removed the plates. I left the shafts. Be careful, those screws are made of CHEESE. It is a #2 phillips but many are made WRONG! go to quickscrews and take a look at the #2. http://www.quickscrews.com/Drivebits/Insert_and_Power_Bits the tip is not pointed, it is rounded off! ABSOLUTELY required for these screws! I had to take both cyl4 screws off w/ special curved jaw locking pliers.

OK I done whining.

My engine performance set up: 05 ZX6R, Power Commander IIIUSB w/ignition module, jumper mod, kit air box mods & plugged frame holes, BMC race filter, AIR system removed & reed valves flipped on plates(positively closed and seals valve cover), Power Vent positive crank case valve, Yoshi R5 slip on & hollowed out cat Kawi pipe, Sebimoto race body sealed up on radiator w/air dam @ bottom (I don't have a race radiator)and maybe a few other things I don't recall right now. All other mods are suspension and stuff like Ohlins, Woodcraft etc.

PC map:218-508 w/ timing mods

stock Shell 91 gas, no hot gas added, no benzene. (I usually run a race mix, even on the street... WTF I wanna have fun)

Butt Dyno Results: WOW! Truly WOW.
NO bottom end loss, louder intake sound and can hear my engine better even w/my custom Big Ear plugs, power change starts at about 4k, very noticeable from 7 to 12k and still better up to 14500. Cracks like my old 91 ZX7R(R) w/ FCRs, great initial response, but the ZX6R keeps going... NICE.

Street Dyno: Against my girls 01 GSXR600 w/ similar mods (cuz everyone knows gxxrs are for girls) I'm about 10 to 20 feet faster up to 100mph than before. Up to 5th gear redline the ZX6R is about 5 seconds faster.

Nice deal for FREE! I may pull the rod and leave in the motor and sensor (
keeping the eng lite off)to see if there is a difference. If there is I'll get the throttle buddy.

See Ya.. going out tho ride the 33 from Ojai, google it and be jealous!

 

Interesting... so what advance timing are you running are you running w/ this gas mix?